The Jeju Crash
When Pilots Panic
From a pilot's perspective there is not a damn thing we can do if our plane is shot out of the sky. However, when there is a bird strike, that's a different story. This is when our training takes over. While a bird strike could be catastrophic at the wrong time, pilots should have the emotional stability and requisite training to fly the plane. In my opinion, these pilots panicked.
I have not seen footage of their first arrival. Were they configured for landing? I would assume so, therefore, on their miss-approach they brought up their gear and flaps for the go-around. Meaning they had hydraulics to do so. A flock of birds could have impacted their hydraulics, yes. But if so, that did not force them to fly at full speed without flaps and belly the aircraft into a landing, ultimately hitting a wall at full speed.
On a missed approach, if they lost an engine and needed the performance, they would have brought the gear up and some flaps. They did not have to bring up all the flaps and put the plane into a clean configuration. Furthermore, if hydraulics were a concern the prudent thing would have been to leave some of the flaps out in anticipation of alternate flap extension.
What should have happened if the plane was impacted by birds, a calm declaration to the tower such as, "Tower, Jeju 7C2216 had a bird strike. We lost our engine. We have a hydraulic issue. We would like to hold close to the runway to run our checklists."
The Boeing 737 has engine driven hydraulic pumps, but also electric hydraulic pumps. The Boeing 737 even has an alternate gear extension system. Any pilot in this situation should hold, meaning they fly circles in the sky, and see what systems they have available, run checklists, and determine if there is enough runway length to land at their given weight. At the very least make their plane as light as possible before they attempted to land on a marginally sufficient runway, if that was their only option. These pilots took none of these actions
The pilots repeatedly called "May Day" and landed, with multiple warnings screaming in their flight deck because of the the lack of flaps and gear at a low altitude. They ignored the warnings and pressed on, without knowledge or understanding that their actions would result in death. Clean, short runway, they were fast.
A fight or flight response is not often mentioned with piloting, but this is a perfect example that pilots need to keep flying the plane. To fight, would mean to do what is necessary to attack the problem. The flight response is to run. In this case these pilots felt running toward the safety of the ground was their best option. Were they aware of the redundant aircraft systems? Did they train for bird strikes? Did they lack understanding and therefore lacked confidence? Did they understand the inability to stop on the runway? Did they realize what they were about to do, would result in death? I suspect not. And becasue of that lack of understanding 179 people died.
I believe with the new generation of pilots worldwide, without experience, and substandard training, that we might see similar situations in the future. Many think this is a foreign issue, not to be found in the US, but they would be wrong. As our highly experienced pilots are forced to retire at the age of 65, and are replaced with the new generation of pilots without experience, plugged into a training foot print to push them out as quickly as possible, I fear we will be seeing more accidents.
There have been far too many accidents and incidents in 2024. By the grace of God have not manifested into such a catastrophe as this. Our industry is not getting safer, but going the wrong direction. Two solutions that could help mitigate the risk are as follows:
- Retain experienced pilots. Extend the pilot retirement age to 67.
- Improve pilot training to ensure the highest level of understanding and ability.
What do you think the solutions should be?
DO NOT RUSH!
Happy New Year
And health and Happiness to you and your family!
There are families who will not have a happy new year as a result of this needless crash. What will it take for airlines and regulatory agencies alike to do the right thing and prevent such loss? I'm not sure. I've seen the worst of training and violations with no accountability, so I wonder what will it take?
May all your flights be safe in 2025
PS: I do not blame the pilots. They are a product of their environment. The company is responsible for putting them in the air ill prepared.
Karlene K Petitt
PhD. MBA. MHS.
A350, B777, A330, B747-400, B747-200, B767, B757, B737, B727
A350, B777, A330, B747-400, B747-200, B767, B757, B737, B727
Although not all details are clear and a final verdict about what Pilots did or should have done will take a while, it looks I have to agree with you. Rushed approach with clean aircraft, no good plan, no gear, landing halfway with high speed and maybe tailwind.
ReplyDeleteMartin Leeuwis capt 737 for 25 years
Martin, I too hate to speak out too soon, but felt compelled because this is something that should not be delayed until the final verdict. The message to all is "Do NOT rush!" Know your plane. Know your systems. Keep flying. Thank you for your thoughts.
DeleteWith all those acronyms next to your name, I figured you'd know well enough not to speculate on a recent mishap. It's clear you know absolutely nothing about what these pilots were up against. You're just twisting this scenario to meet your selfish desires. As if a 67 year old pilot would have handled this situation better.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone afraid to speculate? This creates discussion. Yes, I suspect a 67 year old pilot with experience would do better. I know one captain who flew the plane for 25 years asserted as much.
DeleteYou’re rushing to some conclusions pretty quickly here
ReplyDeletePerhaps, But we'll see. The message is... "don't rush" And if someone reads this and they decide to do something other than landing on a short runway without flaps and gear, and decide to hold and work through the problem... then maybe it was worth speaking earlier instead of waiting months for the analysis.
DeleteThe admonishment "don't rush" could just as well be applied to your essay here. There is not yet enough known to come to such sweeping and damning conclusions. There evidence neither engine was working properly upon landing (One video shows the right engine ingesting birds with subsequent compressor stalls, and another video does not show a thermal plume from the left engine during the landing possibly indicating it was not operating). If the second engine failure was not pilot induced, then what we saw here may have been a heroic attempt to return to the field with little to no available thrust. This might explain a pilot's decision to not extend gear or flaps. This is not a scenario that any airline pilot trains for even after the Miracle on the Hudson.
ReplyDeleteThis is my assumption and opinion. I did not rush, but have been thinking about every scenario possible with that plane, and the configuration since it happened. More so, I'm not sure they could have had a bird strike on the missed approach that took out both their engines and killed their hydraulics, but they were still able to clean up the plane, fly the pattern and return at such excessive speeds. Even Captain Sullenberger who lost two engines had time to plan, discuss and talk to ATC. And why aren't we training for such failures? The event of birdstrikes is real. Not until after the AF447 crash did we train for stalls in the Airbus, despite a known problem. Whey do we have to kill people first? There in lays the problem. However, at Evergreen, ahh... 35 years ago we trained for a catastrophic failure and taught pilots how to do a 90/270 to get back to the runway most expediently. Regardless, my assumptions have not killed 179 people, but perhaps if someone reads this and thinks about what if... they might make better decisions. It's about talking about problems, not sweeping them under the rug. This might be a good video for you to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdTYvxFvSs&t=12s
DeleteKarlene, your anonymous naysayer is out of line. He (or she) is not qualified to attack your take of the incident. 40 years of pilot experience and a Phd in Airline Safety Culture vs Anonymous who hides behind anonymity to throw plastic darts.
ReplyDeleteThank you. I find the anonymity of the outspoken and attacking interesting. They cannot put their names to their comments.
Delete"Anonymous" was not so anonymous as he included his name and experience at the end of his initial post: "Martin Leeuwis Capt 737 for 25 years. Best case, Karlene's essay helps prevent a similar incident in the future, worst case, she's wrong and wrongfully accused a couple of pilots who are now dead. Seems like the upside outweighs the downside IMO. PS - It's EASIER to post here as "Anonymous" than to put in your name...
ReplyDeleteJoe, I do not think the comment on anonymous was regarding the one with the name attached.
DeletePS - I assume the first four "Anonymous" postings above are from Captain Leeuwis, and if so, the only truly anonymous posting is the fifth guy saying Leeuwis was out of line and that Leeuwis was hiding behind anonymity ... ironic.
ReplyDeleteJoe, below might have been the comment that anonymous was about. I published it, then deleted it because, we don't need abuse on social media. We should be able to have adult discussions even if we don't like another's opinion. Simple attacks are not allowed. But... on second thought, I do have a comment for the anonymous person who wrote this statement ...
Delete“Jesus Christ you’re a fucking Ghoul. Those bodies aren’t cold yet and you’re pushing your bullshit. For a professional aviator to pump out this garbage with zero evidence makes me question your mental health.”
I now wonder if my statement that pilots should have emotional stability hit a chord with him, as clearly the author lacks self control. I also pray that he does not respond this way when his first officer voices her opinion during a flight.
Had he signed his name, chances are the FAA may look into his mental health. Could you imagine flying with this guy? Frightening. This is why these guys hide.
Happy New Year Karlene! Hope you and yours are well.
ReplyDeleteHave you considered why there are no exterior lights on landing (anti collision) and why the ADS-B ceased to report? This could point to no engine or APU generators, and on stand by bus.
I have lots of questions this early post accident.
Prayers for the families and loved ones of those who perished and the surviving crew. And the first responders.
Happy New year Linda! I had not noticed either, but I recently listened to another analysis, who was on the same wave length and said they may have panicked and shut down the wrong engine... that might cause some of those problems. Thankfully Boeing will be in this and we might get to hear what happened, if they want to defend their plane. Otherwise, I don't know the politics if Korea can retain the voice recorder. Do you? We'll see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts!
DeleteKarlene- I am very sorry for all the hateful comments you have had to endure. You are not selfish. You are not pushing an agenda. You are doing the right thing by analyzing this accident. You have earned the right to make such statements. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteDennis, Thank you very much! This is much appreciated. I find it amazing that people don't discuss the issue, but instead attack opinions. Thank you so much!! And a very Happy New Year!!
Delete65 is already too old.
ReplyDeleteYe, for some. For other 55 is too old. For others maybe 70. I just read this response to my house guest, he says, "I don't want anyone under 50"... So there you have it, lots of opinion.
Delete